On notions of trans community
Apr 20th, 2008 by Rebecca
I’ve been seriously conflicted this year about the notion of community with other transpeople. I like having people around who can really understand what I’ve gone through, and there’s so many conversations which it’s just very hard to have with even the most understanding cispeople. But at the same time, there’s something that’s been troubling me all the same.
I was sitting around unemployed over the summer, and I took to spending some time in a trans chatroom. Having lost most of my ties to the trans community when I’d kinda run off the rails a couple years previously, when Monash was jerking me around, I really relished the chance to get to know a few other young trans girls - and run into some that I’d known years before (it really is a small world when you’re trans). I found similarly with some of the great trans voices out there; reading the work of people like little light, Lisa Harney, Queen Emily, and in print, Julia Serano, really helped me get over some of my lingering issues. It’s really reaffirming, particularly when you’re at a bit of a difficult point, to be reminded that there’s plenty of others like you out there, and that some of them at least are really pretty cool.
The role of transpeople in my life then changed rather dramatically when, at the first meeting for the civil unions campaign in January, I randomly ran into Ryan, then an old friend who I hadn’t seen in two and a bit years. Except, well, he hadn’t been going by Ryan then, and - at least to him - I hadn’t been going by Rebecca either. The mutual “That’s…I’m sure that’s…but…no…it can’t be…but…looks so familiar…gah I’m so confused!” was very amusing. We’ve been hanging out regularly ever since, and it’s the first time I’ve ever had transpeople around all the time in the flesh. There is really is so many experiences that just can’t quite be gotten be cisfolk, and a great deal of humor in the ways in which we experience gender. Since then, I’ve met a couple of other transfolk here with whom the experience is similar, and it’s really given me an appreciation for the value of having other transfolk around, and not just making a break with the community now that it’s possible.
Not long after, though, I had an experience which unnerved me. A couple of us had been talking about getting some sort of trans political group going here, and so I went along to our local trans support group to meet a few others in the local community. And, dear god. It was if those fifteen or so people (generally trans-identified) had walked out of the pages of The Transsexual Empire. They were profoundly creepy. They were all so ridiculously overblown (wigs/tons of makeup/minidresses/etc.) that I later discovered that, having come along in jeans and a political t-shirt, they’d assumed that I was a ciswoman and wondered why I was there. Worst of all, they were really quite misogynist. When I heard one of them say actually something to the extent of “well, I’m glad I haven’t fully transitioned, because I’m not weak like those ciswomen”, my jaw nearly hit the floor. It was just like - where the fuck did that come from? That’s not supposed to be something one hears outside of Heart’s or Janice Raymond’s propaganda.
It’s far from the first time I’ve had these experiences in the trans community. I had an experience at Monash one day that was straight out of this Venus Envy strip. We get these people coming into this chatroom I’ve been frequenting too; the middle-aged transwoman who brings everything back to sex jokes like a thirteen-year old boy and is never short of a seriously creepy personal anecdote, another middle-aged transwoman who when one starts talking about doing trans activism starts on this batshit rant about “special rights” and quoting the UN Declaration of Human Rights at me, to use a couple of examples.
It’s not as if I don’t understand why these people are the way they are. We are a community of people who, in general, have been through a hell of a lot in our lives, having to fight against so much bloody ignorance to get where we are. Trauma is something that basically comes with the territory, and that’s going to affect how people come out of it at the end. But at the same time, knowing that doesn’t make it any easier. I know there’s quite a few young transwomen here, but they’ve all run screaming from that local group, making them essentially impossible to find unless they’re also queer. These people, when it comes down to it, are toxic; they may be justified in being so, but it doesn’t make it any easier to try and build up a stable local community, whether for activist or social reasons.
I don’t really know what the solution is. I’d love to see a stronger trans community here. I’d really like to see the Australian trans community, and especially the local one, becoming involved in events like the Transgender Day of Remembrance. Yet at the same time, I’m really fed up with dealing with noxious people: how does one actually start to get these sort of things organised when the people that are visible in the community are so flagrantly creepy that they send anyone who’s remotely sane running screaming? I’m not talking about merely people being different, for the last thing I’m about is throwing people under the bus - I’m talking about those who are so batshit creepy that they scare rational people off.
On a personal level, I find that this is starting to make me ponder the involvement I want to have with the trans community in the future. In one sense, I really do want to do more in the way of activism; it’s something which I’ve actually got skills I can use, and I’m uncomfortable with disappearing into the woodwork like so many of my sisters - because I recognise that that’s an inherently privileged thing to be doing, and effectively leaves those who can’t avoid being misgendered, and thus can’t woodwork, to stand alone. At the same time, I’m reaching that point where I’m getting weary of being othered, and where having to hang around toxic people doesn’t necessarily do wonders for my own sanity. I don’t know what the answer is. I love having decent trans friends around, and I love the notion of a strong trans community, at least in theory. Sometimes that seems like an insurmountable prospect though, and thus I wind up here, stuck.
I hear you. The first trans women that I met, indeed, seem to have “walked out of the pages of The Transsexual Empire”. I thought to myself “if this is what I have to do to transition…” and doubted that I should go ahead with it.
Fortunately, I have since met many trans women, of all ages, who are either past that shit, or never went for it in the first place; the butchest woman that I know is trans. (And I do mean butch, not hetero-style masculine).
I’ve rejected the “trans empire” look myself; I don’t wear makeup, I’ve got facial piercings, and wear jeans and t-shirts on most days. But, more importantly, I became a feminist - pretty damned quickly, and I think that is something that many older trans woman miss - that they think that they can just change the externals and carry the same old misogyny / racism / classism with them.
The shit that goes on at gender clinics like Monash encourages this, and I think that many late-transitioning trans women are so desperate, that they’ll give in to clinics forcing rigid stereotype on them, because what other choice is there?
I’m fortunate that there’s a much more open clinic in Philadelphia (Mazzoni Center; they serve the queer / trans* community). They prescribe hormones strictly on an informed-consent basis; they follow WPATH (HBIGDA) guidelines for recommending surgury, but they *truly* follow them, instead of “interpreting” the guidelines for their own purposes.
BTW, not all late-transitioning trans women are like what you are talking about. I’m 49, and I transitioned at 46, and I’ve met other late transitioners that are fine. Age is not the largest determining criteria on attitudes (Compare Kate Bornstein and Susan Stanton, for example).
I’ve been thinking about the community thing, too. Building community from the top down is too much like hard work, but what about something simple and grassrootsy and not overly ambitious? Just getting a few friends together, and going bowling or picnicking or haunting a cafe or something, and inviting a few other local trans people along who you think you might be able get along with. Could be fun.
Galling Galla: I think you’re spot on in a lot of ways. I think the gender clinics are only part of the cause, though; to use the Canberra people as one example, all of them (that I know of) were doing it independently rather than going through clinics. I think it’s just a consequence of the trauma so many people have had to deal with before actually getting to the point of transition. I also didn’t want to suggest at all that all late-transitioning trans women were creepy or otherwise negative; it’s just that this particular group were all of that age.
Robbie: I think that’s a good idea when it can be pulled off, as some of the transmen have done. The thing is that it requires being able to actually find other transpeople in the first place, which is very hard when everyone has woodworked and there is no semblance of a useful community in existence.
I’m mid 50’s and do not associate with the local t community because I have very little in common with them. Some are mysogynists and others just want to be mummy. Very scary!!
I live in jeans and tshirts and rarely wear make-up.
There is a big difference in our political views as well.
A unified t community is never going to happen because we cannot be unified.
Get political by joining the party of your choice.
Socialise with those who respect you and share your values and interests.
Just saying..
I ran into similar at a support group ages ago - to the point that I stopped going. Too much hierarchy building and “you’re really trans, but she’s not” type of stuff, plus a lot of misogyny.
A lot of it comes from people being set in their ways, I guess. I mean, just being middle-aged isn’t a guarantee that you’ll end up being a misogynist ultra-femme with too much makeup. I think a lot of it also comes from being unable to accept that they’re going from a privileged to underprivileged state - as women, as trans, and so on.
The existence of these people in no way validates The Transsexual Empire or Heart’s brand of transphobia - that still refuses to deal with us as individuals, and instead treats us as if we’re all the same person, and that person is the worst possible caricature, based on people who are only just starting to adjust to the idea of life as a woman.
In response to Mrs. Madrigal, I believe there’s a difference between unifying the trans community and finding likeminded trans people interested in political activism, and it looks like Rebecca’s talking about the latter. We have some activists, could use more - our rights are a shambles and that needs to be taken care of.
I ran into similar at a support group ages ago - to the point that I stopped going. Too much hierarchy building and “you’re really trans, but she’s not” type of stuff, plus a lot of misogyny.
Well, yeah. The “transer than though” is kind of the other side of the coin there, and neither of them is very helpful in building any sort of useful community. It’s something I tend to escape personally, being young, entirely passable, and pretty gender normative, but that doesn’t make it helpful.
A lot of it comes from people being set in their ways, I guess. I mean, just being middle-aged isn’t a guarantee that you’ll end up being a misogynist ultra-femme with too much makeup. I think a lot of it also comes from being unable to accept that they’re going from a privileged to underprivileged state - as women, as trans, and so on.
I think that’s a large part of it: a couple of these people were just really creepy, but I think much of the behaviour of the people I described in this post could be caused by really struggling with that point. I get in an intellectual sense that this could be really hard to adjust to, especially if you’ve really absorbed that privilege (the woman ranting on about “special rights” was one example that comes to mind), and lived with it for a long time. I find it hard to relate to personally though; people have assumed I was queer ever since I was old enough for people to assume that, so I’ve never had the notion of not being treated as second-class in at least some way.
The existence of these people in no way validates The Transsexual Empire or Heart’s brand of transphobia - that still refuses to deal with us as individuals, and instead treats us as if we’re all the same person, and that person is the worst possible caricature, based on people who are only just starting to adjust to the idea of life as a woman.
I’m not saying it does, and I probably should have been more clear on that in my post. It’s just that their behaviour was so consistent with that stereotype, and so galling, that I had a visceral response that basically made me want to run screaming from the trans community - and yet I say this as someone who believes in inclusive politics generally. I think you touch on another good point there: you’re probably right in that, in many cases, it’s those people who are just starting to adjust who are well, responsible for a lot of the weird stuff. The problem is that, while they need a venue they can feel safe; the lack of any sort of space where they’re not around is not necessarily conducive to a lasting community. I’m not exactly expressing myself clearly here, as I’m a bit tired, but meh.
In response to Mrs. Madrigal, I believe there’s a difference between unifying the trans community and finding likeminded trans people interested in political activism, and it looks like Rebecca’s talking about the latter. We have some activists, could use more - our rights are a shambles and that needs to be taken care of.
That’s what I was going for, yes. There are too many ideological chasms within the trans community that will never be resolved; a “united” trans community is a pipedream. Rather, I’m talking about the mere concept of forming useful communities of some sort on a local level; it’s certainly something that’s possible, but it’s been pretty problematic in quite a few places, especially out here, due in a large part to the conduct of transpeople themselves.
Anyway, thanks for dropping by, Lisa - I always read your blog, and I appreciate you coming by to comment.
On the validation or lack of same for Transsexual Empire, that was a preemptive counter for someone likely to take your words out of context without linking back here and crow to the world about how the trannies admit that Janice Raymond was right. You know who I mean.
<3
And you’re right - it’s really frustrating to deal with those attitudes (and a lot of others). Identity is such a charged topic sometimes that people impose their own choices on you or try to invalidate your choices for not being like theirs.
A lot of people have been social outcasts to such an extent that they don’t know how to socialise properly, they lack the neccessary skills. Or they will have only absorbed those from the more ‘blokey’ parts of male society which certainly doesn’t serve them well in any other setting.
A lot will grab hold of anything that resembles love and acceptance and cling to it suffocatingly tightly like a drowning person who ends up drowning their rescuer.
But many such toxic people can de-tox. Given strict boundaries, given time to absorb new knowledge that will unravel the prejudices they have absorbed. Failing that there is always therapy for them.
For many the isolation and lack of a broad community is exactly the problem. No role models, no peer group, no guidance. In a broad community there will be all sorts of folk in their like-minded groups and plenty linking two or more groups together forming a broader interactive web just like other functioning communities. To function well it needs to be inclusive and to reach a critical mass of interconnected people.
For a group political or otherwise to deal with the toxic awkward and creepy folk strict boundaries of behaviour would be a minimum. A member or two with a mental health treatment background would be an invaluable asset I think. Personally with people as oppressed hurt and traumatised as this I think politics and support go hand in hand, each requiring the other. At the very least forming some partnership with mental health support services would be advisable. After all if these people are toxic because of trauma getting them to treatment doesn’t just help them but the whole community.
And don’t judge some too harshly, people often overdo the makeup as they learn or untill they learn better. Some people, cis and trans, just plain like minidresses. Some have developed internalised misogyny as part of their denial and it often takes time to break down. As for me, I’m a goth. Too much make-up is part of the style.
Transgender is a cross-cultural phenomenon involving people of all classes, ethnicities etc. People will carry the baggage of their communities, will have all sorts of styles prejudices and attitudes at least at first. It’s strength and weakness is that diversity. Any group would need to be able to be flexible enough to turn that into an advantage while slowly educating the people within it.
I’m in rather rural northern NSW surviving on a disability pension so I can’t help much directly, but I care about the issues and I’d like to be able to help in what small ways I can both the political activism and the community building.
Identitywith conscience, particularly politically viable identity, is something I’ve come to dread. Despite a palpable urgency of neccessity, it requires constant rethinking to functionally maintain a viable element of conscience. The necessity arises in part at least, in my own efforts to sustain and substantiate interactions, with conscience as a basis.
Initially it begins for me with some basic desire to find a place to “fit”, in order to accomodate that personal necessity in more experiential ways than my own isolated thought head space can ever allow. Fitting with conscience also requires a basic political empowerment of exercisable choice to be a viable option.
Most political identities have an inherent weakness limiting the viability of conscience. The definition of the identity is composed as much by what it excludes, as by what it includes, and frequently more so. Becoming binary and imposing normative standars for inclusion, it excludes much of the subtltety of variation its intial necessitation contained.
Identifying the subtle variations of my needs is essential to practical resolutions of such needs. I usually approach this identification through comparative contrast. Whether this is oppositional or complimentary in nature is the point at which a component of conscience first comes to bear consideration. When the oppositional consumes the complimentary, I cannot identify.
It is no easy process, and must remain exclusively individual if I want to equalize rights rather than initiate priveleges solely for myself.
The FTM livejournal community has a really interesting member at the moment. He’s name is GeeksNeedLove2, and he always seems to be causing trouble by questioning the FTM community. His posts have started ‘disappearing’ after having some 112 comments in the thread. Its rather annoying.
Recent questions that I saw, but didn’t get to read the comments threads of before they were removed included:
- Why is there conflict between transfags and straight FTM’s?
- Why do some FTM’s in support groups marginalise minority FTM’s (for example femmeFTM ended up forming a splinter group due to sexism from some of the more masculine gender normative FTM’s)?
- Where do post-transition FTM’s go for support? Most trans support groups are very focussed on transition, but we don’t just disappear after transition. We still have legal issues, dating issues, work issues that are unique.
I thought it was very interesting that variations on the exact same themes are cropping up in the FTM community.
That’s pretty sad, although I guess I shouldn’t be surprised; considering the propensity for these splits among transwomen, I suppose it figures that transmen would be much the same. All three of those have been huge chasms in many a trans group that I’ve been in…