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	<title>Comments on: On desiring diversity in the Australian blogosphere</title>
	<atom:link href="http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/</link>
	<description>perspectives on stuff from an angry feminist</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-1400</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-1400</guid>
		<description>[...] Rebecca would like to see more diversity in the blogosphere: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Rebecca would like to see more diversity in the blogosphere: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-1081</link>
		<dc:creator>lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 13:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-1081</guid>
		<description>Sorry, have only just seen the followups here (RSS strangeness, I think?)  I ended up &lt;a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1744" rel="nofollow"&gt;announcing a monthly carnival, here&lt;/a&gt;. Blogcarnival.com is doing the hard work - it has a rather neat "instacarnival" feature that generates HTML from the submissions, which reduces the workload fairly dramatically. If anyone here would like to join in - submit your own and/or other people's work - that would be great. Offers to host are also welcome.

The only real requirements are that it be from an Australian or New Zealander blogger who identifies as feminist, and that the subject matter be feminist/feminist-related. I'd like to go for fairly broad/inclusive definitions of "feminist" for both of the above, so it's possible that everyone will find something they resonate with and something they disagree with; I'm hoping that will be less of a cause of friction and bad feeling in our little blogger pool than in the larger ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, have only just seen the followups here (RSS strangeness, I think?)  I ended up <a href="http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=1744" rel="nofollow">announcing a monthly carnival, here</a>. Blogcarnival.com is doing the hard work - it has a rather neat &#8220;instacarnival&#8221; feature that generates HTML from the submissions, which reduces the workload fairly dramatically. If anyone here would like to join in - submit your own and/or other people&#8217;s work - that would be great. Offers to host are also welcome.</p>
<p>The only real requirements are that it be from an Australian or New Zealander blogger who identifies as feminist, and that the subject matter be feminist/feminist-related. I&#8217;d like to go for fairly broad/inclusive definitions of &#8220;feminist&#8221; for both of the above, so it&#8217;s possible that everyone will find something they resonate with and something they disagree with; I&#8217;m hoping that will be less of a cause of friction and bad feeling in our little blogger pool than in the larger ones.</p>
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		<title>By: az</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-1077</link>
		<dc:creator>az</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 09:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-1077</guid>
		<description>I'd be interested in an Australian feminist blog carnival. From my point of view, I've been blogging since before there was actually an Australian bloggosphere, and I see the internet much more as a tool to network politically/theoretically across oceans and national borders, than to form networks based around nationality. So, apart from 6 or 7 people who are mostly friends/acquaintances, I don't read Australian blogs at all. It doesn't surprise me to hear that there's not a very large feminist or trans-friendly consciousness, though. But I think the differences of space and geography on the internets mean that representational politics don't work so well, and alliances or networks form more on a random, strange basis. Which erupts into a different form of politics, sometimes, and a more exciting one, for me. 

(That said, the American-centricity of many blogs really annoys me; sometimes it's like geographical location in the USA goes completely unmarked, as if it really is the 'centre'.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested in an Australian feminist blog carnival. From my point of view, I&#8217;ve been blogging since before there was actually an Australian bloggosphere, and I see the internet much more as a tool to network politically/theoretically across oceans and national borders, than to form networks based around nationality. So, apart from 6 or 7 people who are mostly friends/acquaintances, I don&#8217;t read Australian blogs at all. It doesn&#8217;t surprise me to hear that there&#8217;s not a very large feminist or trans-friendly consciousness, though. But I think the differences of space and geography on the internets mean that representational politics don&#8217;t work so well, and alliances or networks form more on a random, strange basis. Which erupts into a different form of politics, sometimes, and a more exciting one, for me. </p>
<p>(That said, the American-centricity of many blogs really annoys me; sometimes it&#8217;s like geographical location in the USA goes completely unmarked, as if it really is the &#8216;centre&#8217;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-858</guid>
		<description>I think that's a pretty wise tact to take, considering the size of the group we're talking about. Or at least to, yeah, start with an inclusive approach and see where it went from there.

I might draw up a call for posts in the next couple of days and see if I can get it out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s a pretty wise tact to take, considering the size of the group we&#8217;re talking about. Or at least to, yeah, start with an inclusive approach and see where it went from there.</p>
<p>I might draw up a call for posts in the next couple of days and see if I can get it out there.</p>
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		<title>By: lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-856</guid>
		<description>Well, just let me know if there's anything useful I can do. The list is smallish (but growing!), isn't it, so there might need to be a fair bit of calling and outreach in order to encourage people in. The whole thing of course can bring up the issue of diversity, and how far do we go in accepting things outside of our particular feminisms? We've seen the US based feminist carnivals split and split again. I don't have a pat answer to that, except that I'd probably endorse an inclusive sort of approach in the first instance, and see how it shakes out. The whole thing should be about building bridges, not walls, even when the bridges are between quite different places. 

They're my raw thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, just let me know if there&#8217;s anything useful I can do. The list is smallish (but growing!), isn&#8217;t it, so there might need to be a fair bit of calling and outreach in order to encourage people in. The whole thing of course can bring up the issue of diversity, and how far do we go in accepting things outside of our particular feminisms? We&#8217;ve seen the US based feminist carnivals split and split again. I don&#8217;t have a pat answer to that, except that I&#8217;d probably endorse an inclusive sort of approach in the first instance, and see how it shakes out. The whole thing should be about building bridges, not walls, even when the bridges are between quite different places. </p>
<p>They&#8217;re my raw thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Thanks for dropping by, Lauredhel! I'd really like to see something like this happen, and I wouldn't mind doing the work for it. I guess the main problem that I can see (at least, if I was to do it) is that I don't have a particularly long list of Australian feminist blogs; one consequence of ignoring most of the mainstream Australian blogosphere is that I tend to miss the good blogs that are actually out there.

I wonder if it might help if, say, a call were put out around the place inviting people to send in links? One of the advantages Hoyden About Town has in that respect is that it's one of the few (if not the only) blogs that really crosses into both the Oz and broader feminist spheres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for dropping by, Lauredhel! I&#8217;d really like to see something like this happen, and I wouldn&#8217;t mind doing the work for it. I guess the main problem that I can see (at least, if I was to do it) is that I don&#8217;t have a particularly long list of Australian feminist blogs; one consequence of ignoring most of the mainstream Australian blogosphere is that I tend to miss the good blogs that are actually out there.</p>
<p>I wonder if it might help if, say, a call were put out around the place inviting people to send in links? One of the advantages Hoyden About Town has in that respect is that it&#8217;s one of the few (if not the only) blogs that really crosses into both the Oz and broader feminist spheres.</p>
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		<title>By: lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-848</link>
		<dc:creator>lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-848</guid>
		<description>Great post. (I, too, have been irritated by the intermittent mocking of feminist posts by ML, though I definitely see the value of the ML project in other ways.) 

Tigtog and I have been quietly mumbling about the possibility of an Australian feminist blog carnival for a while now, but daunted at the idea of the work behind it. I would absolutely support one, and if there's something I could do to help, please drop me a line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. (I, too, have been irritated by the intermittent mocking of feminist posts by ML, though I definitely see the value of the ML project in other ways.) </p>
<p>Tigtog and I have been quietly mumbling about the possibility of an Australian feminist blog carnival for a while now, but daunted at the idea of the work behind it. I would absolutely support one, and if there&#8217;s something I could do to help, please drop me a line.</p>
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		<title>By: Fire Fly</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>Fire Fly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-837</guid>
		<description>Hi Rebecca,

I have to confess to being a poor reader of blogs cos I'm so busy. Unlike most Australian bloggers, I'm not a PhD student who basically sits at a computer most of the time. I mostly read US blogs because I want to focus on women of colour. As you say, the Australian blogosphere is overwhelmingly white, male, able-bodied, cisgendered, straight and middle class. I don't need to seek out the perspectives of such people since I'm surrounded by them. Why would I bother reading their blogs too? Unless they're linking me and affecting the traffic to and atmosphere of my blog, I don't see a point in having anything to do with them.
I don't read American blogs by middle-class, straight, cisgendered, able-bodied white men either, despite Chris Clarke occasionally commenting at my blog.

I've found that the thing which makes the US feminist blogosphere -- and other tightly-knit blogospheres, such as the progressive Muslim blogosphere(s) -- is the large amount of off-blog networking that these bloggers do. They communicate via email and e-lists, meet up in person, organise their blogging so that it achieves other objectives (be it book deals or editing major websites), and generally treat blogging as part of a career, whether they treat it as a form of activism or as a form of self-promotion for a more conventional professional feminist career.
Unless I'm seriously missing something and nobody invited me to the party cos I smell, this is quite different to the Aussie feminist blogosphere. The Aussie femmo-blogosphere seems really atomised and individualised, same with the general social justice blogosphere in Aus. I tried to create some momentum around Australian issues through blogs through the National Day of Action to stop the intervention last year, but I was too busy to follow up on the dynamism it created, and there was nobody else to do it.
Bloggers here don't seem to get the kind of recognition as they have in the USA, as writers or as organisers. But like I said, that "recognition" isn't imposed from outside, it's actively sought out through social networks. And I know for a fact that Aussie feminist bloggers are plugging into US networks because of the lack of Australian ones -- I'm one of those Aussie feminists.

I'm not saying the solution to the issues you've raised is to start an e-list. In fact, I think it'd implode in a month given that many of the tensions around race, trans inclusion, sex work, porn, class, sexuality, disability and ideology that bisect the US feminist blogosphere also divide Australian feminist bloggers. A carnival or a group blog sound like good ideas, but I'm way too busy to commit to a project like that. If you're interested, I'd suggest emailing around to see if you get any takers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rebecca,</p>
<p>I have to confess to being a poor reader of blogs cos I&#8217;m so busy. Unlike most Australian bloggers, I&#8217;m not a PhD student who basically sits at a computer most of the time. I mostly read US blogs because I want to focus on women of colour. As you say, the Australian blogosphere is overwhelmingly white, male, able-bodied, cisgendered, straight and middle class. I don&#8217;t need to seek out the perspectives of such people since I&#8217;m surrounded by them. Why would I bother reading their blogs too? Unless they&#8217;re linking me and affecting the traffic to and atmosphere of my blog, I don&#8217;t see a point in having anything to do with them.<br />
I don&#8217;t read American blogs by middle-class, straight, cisgendered, able-bodied white men either, despite Chris Clarke occasionally commenting at my blog.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found that the thing which makes the US feminist blogosphere &#8212; and other tightly-knit blogospheres, such as the progressive Muslim blogosphere(s) &#8212; is the large amount of off-blog networking that these bloggers do. They communicate via email and e-lists, meet up in person, organise their blogging so that it achieves other objectives (be it book deals or editing major websites), and generally treat blogging as part of a career, whether they treat it as a form of activism or as a form of self-promotion for a more conventional professional feminist career.<br />
Unless I&#8217;m seriously missing something and nobody invited me to the party cos I smell, this is quite different to the Aussie feminist blogosphere. The Aussie femmo-blogosphere seems really atomised and individualised, same with the general social justice blogosphere in Aus. I tried to create some momentum around Australian issues through blogs through the National Day of Action to stop the intervention last year, but I was too busy to follow up on the dynamism it created, and there was nobody else to do it.<br />
Bloggers here don&#8217;t seem to get the kind of recognition as they have in the USA, as writers or as organisers. But like I said, that &#8220;recognition&#8221; isn&#8217;t imposed from outside, it&#8217;s actively sought out through social networks. And I know for a fact that Aussie feminist bloggers are plugging into US networks because of the lack of Australian ones &#8212; I&#8217;m one of those Aussie feminists.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying the solution to the issues you&#8217;ve raised is to start an e-list. In fact, I think it&#8217;d implode in a month given that many of the tensions around race, trans inclusion, sex work, porn, class, sexuality, disability and ideology that bisect the US feminist blogosphere also divide Australian feminist bloggers. A carnival or a group blog sound like good ideas, but I&#8217;m way too busy to commit to a project like that. If you&#8217;re interested, I&#8217;d suggest emailing around to see if you get any takers.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-825</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-825</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I actually know Zoe personally, and she’s an occasional commenter on this blog. I’ve never seen her not respected in trans and feminist circles; I’ve never actually wound up in a discussion with her on some of the areas where she’s more conservative.&lt;/i&gt;

I guess its more blogs that call themselves left but are not specifically transfriendly where I would guess bloggers like Zoe Brain would be ridiculed. Not so much because of the trans issue but because of the right-wing politics. I've seen a couple of her posts where right-wingers  in the USA have ridiculed transpeople and she has responded - I wonder if the reverse would happen here, where her politics are ridculed rather than engaged with and debated.

Obviously no-one should get a free pass, and &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; ideas should be up for debate, but people also need to know that disagreement will be within certain civil bounds, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I actually know Zoe personally, and she’s an occasional commenter on this blog. I’ve never seen her not respected in trans and feminist circles; I’ve never actually wound up in a discussion with her on some of the areas where she’s more conservative.</i></p>
<p>I guess its more blogs that call themselves left but are not specifically transfriendly where I would guess bloggers like Zoe Brain would be ridiculed. Not so much because of the trans issue but because of the right-wing politics. I&#8217;ve seen a couple of her posts where right-wingers  in the USA have ridiculed transpeople and she has responded - I wonder if the reverse would happen here, where her politics are ridculed rather than engaged with and debated.</p>
<p>Obviously no-one should get a free pass, and <i>all</i> ideas should be up for debate, but people also need to know that disagreement will be within certain civil bounds, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://burningwords.net/2008/04/22/on-desiring-diversity-in-the-australian-blogosphere/#comment-824</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://burningwords.net/?p=92#comment-824</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’d suggest that directing comments threads - or at least riding herd on them - would be very important to making blogs more conducive to unheard voices.  I find the level of smug, corrosive cynicism, snarkiness rather than debate, and complete lack of openess to different ideas on some Australian blogs (left and right) means that I feel like they are not worth participating in.&lt;/i&gt;

It's certainly a tactic which I've seen used to good effect on a lot of blogs, but it also limits the ability to engage in discussion with those who don't agree, but might come around; or those in the peanut gallery who might get exposed with those arguments. I try not to block unless people are over the top, but if people aren't engaging respectfully, I'm inclined to go for the snark. I try to walk a line between all of those on this blog; sometimes I succeed, sometimes not.

&lt;i&gt;For instance, I wonder how Zoe Brain (an Australian libertarian-right transwoman) would be on some left blogs in Australia? Not that I think she would have problems looking after herself in a stoush. But what about those who would silently watch?&lt;/i&gt;

I actually know Zoe personally, and she's an occasional commenter on this blog. I've never seen her not respected in trans and feminist circles; I've never actually wound up in a discussion with her on some of the areas where she's more conservative.

&lt;i&gt;Setting up a blog carnival would be a simpler and easier start than a group blog, I would imagine. If you choose to do this, please post and I will let you know what I might be able to help with.&lt;/i&gt;

I've certainly been thinking about that, but it worries me that it might be a difficult job to get together: there's so little networking going on between feminist blogs out here that compiling a list of blogs that's longer than about twelve would take some serious research. It's something - at least for the first time - might be easier if a few people could do it collectively, so as to combine all our blogrolls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’d suggest that directing comments threads - or at least riding herd on them - would be very important to making blogs more conducive to unheard voices.  I find the level of smug, corrosive cynicism, snarkiness rather than debate, and complete lack of openess to different ideas on some Australian blogs (left and right) means that I feel like they are not worth participating in.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly a tactic which I&#8217;ve seen used to good effect on a lot of blogs, but it also limits the ability to engage in discussion with those who don&#8217;t agree, but might come around; or those in the peanut gallery who might get exposed with those arguments. I try not to block unless people are over the top, but if people aren&#8217;t engaging respectfully, I&#8217;m inclined to go for the snark. I try to walk a line between all of those on this blog; sometimes I succeed, sometimes not.</p>
<p><i>For instance, I wonder how Zoe Brain (an Australian libertarian-right transwoman) would be on some left blogs in Australia? Not that I think she would have problems looking after herself in a stoush. But what about those who would silently watch?</i></p>
<p>I actually know Zoe personally, and she&#8217;s an occasional commenter on this blog. I&#8217;ve never seen her not respected in trans and feminist circles; I&#8217;ve never actually wound up in a discussion with her on some of the areas where she&#8217;s more conservative.</p>
<p><i>Setting up a blog carnival would be a simpler and easier start than a group blog, I would imagine. If you choose to do this, please post and I will let you know what I might be able to help with.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve certainly been thinking about that, but it worries me that it might be a difficult job to get together: there&#8217;s so little networking going on between feminist blogs out here that compiling a list of blogs that&#8217;s longer than about twelve would take some serious research. It&#8217;s something - at least for the first time - might be easier if a few people could do it collectively, so as to combine all our blogrolls.</p>
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